Saturday, December 27, 2008

ESV with Apocrypha (Deuterocanonicals) is Ordered!

Well, I decided to pre-order the ESV with Apocrypha from Amazon. I am still not sure if I will use it on a regular basis, but at the very least it will have a place on my ever growing Bible translation shelf. Plus, it only cost my a little over twenty dollars to purchase it, including the shipping. Anyways, it still has a January 1 publication date, so hopefully it will be in my hands a week or so after. The description says that it "will include a full-color map section, a table of weights and measures used in the Bible, and many other attractive features." I love Bible maps, but I am interested in what these "many" other attractive features will be. Cross-references would be sweet, but I have been disappointed with assuming that Bibles will include them in the past, so I am not getting my hopes up. Actually, I would be more shocked if they were included. However, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a concise concordance included.
After thinking about it, I may be willing to give the ESV the same treatment I gave the NRSV last year, when I spent a good 6 months using it in ministry work and personal prayer. I guess a lot of it will depend on what is included in this edition, as well as the quality of binding and page layout. Unlike the NRSV, this is the only ESV that includes the Apocrypha/Deuterocanonicals, so my options are limited. We shall see! I will certainly blog about my first impressions, once I receive the ESV with Apocrypha (Deuterocanonicals) in the mail.
Update: Amazon has emailed to let me know that they are "trying to obtain" the ESV w/ Apocrypha.
Update 2: Thanks to the comment post by Michael, the Oxford University Press site shows that the ESV w/ Apocrypha is due January 14.


ElShaddai Edwards said...

Looking forward to your comments, Tim. I'd be especially interested in your take on the text vs. the latest RSV CE.

Timothy said...


That might not be a bad idea.

Biblical Catholic said...

When you read the ESV it will sound very familiar: 94% of its text comes directly from the RSV.

Anonymous said...

Merry Christmas to you and to all your readers!-- Being that I wish to purchase a large print RSV-CE
Bible, I was wondering given your experience, what are the differences between the large print RSV-CE Bible available through EWTN's religious catalogue
and the one Ignatius Press sells?
Apparently, the Ignatius offering
is 78 pages longer. This could mean the Ignatius version has larger print a few more offerings
or both. Have you laid your hands on both editions? What are the differences? Which would you recommend? ---Thanks for any information you can share. --God Bless!

Anonymous said...

Timothy and Readers:

Please read my earlier post.-- I just posted a question about
the differnces between the new
RSV-CE large print leather bibles
offered by Ignatius Press and Oxford University Press (I think they are the other publisher)
--I like all the great work
Ignatius does and I plan to get their large print edition in the future even if I also buy the
one offered by Oxford University Press. Being that I am more familiar with Ignatius, what kind
of Bible do you think Oxford will produce? Also, the large print
leather RSV-CE Bible featured on EWTN seems to have a different amount of pages than the Bible on Oxford's website. Is the Bible
on EWTN's site not from Oxford?
I'm not trying to be picky,
but I want a very readable
and comfortable RSV-CE Bible
so that I can more easily
fellowship with the Lord this year.
While I defer to the Vulgate and
Douay, the RSV-CE is my daily reading Bible. I grew close to the
Lord reading a RSV Bible (without
the deuterocanonical books) when
my funds were limited and when it seemed hard to find a variety
of choices for us Catholics. Thankfully, things are getting better. But being that the bookstores in my area still
have limited offerings, if
anyone has physically handled these Bibles, please share your experiences and recommendations
with me.-- Thanks, God Bless &
Happy New Year !!!

Timothy said...


Thanks for stopping by. Yes, unfortunately there are not that many editions of the Catholic RSV available. I have, however, seen both of the ones that you have mentioned. The Oxford RSV-CE Large Print is really for those who need the large print. In reality, it is more of a giant print edition. Now, if you need an RSV-CE in large print, that is certainly the best and probably only option. The leather edition I saw was nicely put together, and had some helpful Bible maps as well. Here is a little more info:

As for the Ignatius, the new Ignatius RSV-2CE was published a few years back. The biggest difference between the two is that the RSV-2CE doesn't have the "thees" and "thous", along with some other minor translation changes. The RSV-2CE comes in multiple editions, in hardcover, leather, and paperback. Here is some more info:

Ultimately, I think you will be ok with either edition. The biggest difference will be the size of the print in the Oxford edition, which is clearly a giant print edition.

Anonymous said...

Weighing in on the aforementioned posts re: RSV-CE Large Print editions, there appear to be two different editions out, both bonded leather.

ISBN 9781586172855 Ignatius edition

ISBN 9780195288728 Oxford edition

There is quite a difference in the pricing between the two--something like 30 bucks at Amazon.

I think the aforementioned Anonymous was asking about the difference between these two editions--not the difference between the RSV-CE 2nd edition and a single large print edition.

Do you know of differences? I notice the Oxford edition says thumb-indexed. I personally detest thumb-indexed editions. Also, the only interior look I've been able to find is at which has a look inside the Oxford edtion.

Disclaimer, I may be wrong but it is my understanding that Thomas Nelson was subcontracted by Ignatius to produce the Ignatius Bible RSV-CE, 2nd. Did they also produce the Ignatius Bible Large Print while Oxford licensed an edition of their own? If that's the case, I can guess some of the differences since, IMHO, Oxford consistently produces better quality than Thomas Nelson.

Thanks--enjoy your blog. Keith

Anonymous said...

Another follow-up: I checked the EWTN site and the RSV-CE Large Print edition shown is not thumb-indexed. Based on the illustration and the price, I'd say it appears to be the Ignatius edition.


Anonymous said...

And yet another follow up regarding the RSV-CE Large Print.
Got the following from publishers websites:

Ignatius 7.25x10x2 dimension
Oxford 9.25x6.5x1.81 dimension

Checking the EWTN site, it says 6.75x9.5 dimension. Puzzled, I studied the picture again and decided it looked like a Scepter Press binding, so I went to Scepter Press and found a third ISBN 9781594170768 matching the EWTN dimensions BUT--the picture on the Scepter site was/is an Oxford box!? What's the story? Did the three publishers get together to typeset and print text blocks, then each doing their binding independently? Why the different dimensions?

If the dimensions are accurate, the Ignatius edition would be a handful--hefty, shall we say. Larger than my NOAB NRSV and far larger than my NOAB RSV. The smallest (ie. Oxford) would be slightly larger than a NOAB RSV and that's about as big as I would want, especially if I'm not sitting at a desk or I'm on the go with it.


Timothy said...


I think they are all going to be about the same, either from Oxford, Ignatius, or Scepter. As a matter of fact, those compact RSV-CE's that are sold by Ignatius Press are the exact same as the Oxford University university press edition. I think Ignatius and Scepter have an agreement with Oxford to produce these Bibles.

I also think the setup is similar to the Ignatius RSV-2CE agreement with Thomas Nelson, which produced the RSV-2CE. The clear indication of this is found in the front page of the RSV-2CE, also the Nelson Bible Maps in the back.

Anonymous said...


Sorry if I got your thread off track with the RSV-CE Large Print discussion.

I, too, am looking forward to your reaction to the ESV with Apocrypha. I have not found any sites that show the interior layout so I didn't want to preorder until I can see more.

I have an audio NRSV New Testament but I wanted the Old Testament, too. However, I couldn't find an NRSV or RSV, so I got the ESV complete (in the Protestant sense)Bible and cheapo $5 paperback text. I found it sounded familiar (based on the RSV) and discovered I like the ESV translation. Like all translations, it has quirks but overall I find it quite satisfactory. So I bought an ESV Study Bible. Big mistake! It's very Calvinistic (I think--I don't really know much about Calvin) and the articles are seemingly designed to be offensive to just about everyone else. I'm really curious to hear your reaction to the ESV with Apocrypha.

Also, regarding the RSV-CE 2nd Edition--did you (or anyone else you're aware of) find quality problems. I ordered one from BN about three or four years ago. It was cello-wrapped (ie. new) and when I opened it I found pages folded over and uncut, severely wrinkled pages, wildly inconsistent print darkness, smears, etc. It was literally a mess and I returned it. Unwilling to go that route again, I just bought an NOAB RSV instead.

Last year I overcame my reluctance to obtain the blue leather NT. The quality was fine--one folded and uncut page but I just took a scissors to it.

I just ordered another RSV-CE2nd. Now I'm wondering if I should prepare for another major disappointment. I'm curious to hear your experience or what you've heard on that subject. Thanks, Keith

Timothy said...


I too own an NOAB RSV. I actually find it to best edition of the RSV that I own. I love the size of the Bible, in particular the fact that it is fairly compact, yet the type is fairly large. Also, it sits well in my hand and is made of "genuine" leather. So far, I haven't found any RSV, containing the Deuterocanonicals, that is as good as the NOAB RSV.

As for the Ignatius RSV-2CE, I think many of the changes they made were good. However, and maybe this is because I am too picky, but I just don't enjoy reading from the RSV-2CE. I am glad they added the paragraph headings, but to me it just doesn't feel right. I also am not a big fan of the type of paper they used. The first one I got was more or less fine, quality-wise, but I must say that the "gold" stamped icon and lettering on the spine quickly began to come off.

And as for the ESV SB, I have heard similar complaints about the commentary being too calvinistic. If at some point I decide to use the ESV primarily, I probably won't get the ESV Study Bible, but luckily there are other resources out there, like concordances.

Biblical Catholic said...

The ESV isn't 'Calvinist' so much as it is simply traditional, dogmatic, mainline Protestantism.

The ESV is a very literal translation, and literal translations tend to be preferred by churches that emphasize doctrinal orthodoxy and precise theological terminology.

Since the Reformed denominations tend to emphasize strict doctrinal orthodoxy and precise theological terminology, many evangelicals often equate traditional, dogmatic Christian theology that emphasizes logical rigor, precise terminology and strict orthodoxy with 'Calvinism'.

In short, if your only exposure to Christianity is of the wishy washy non-doctrinal tripe that people like Joel Osteen preach, you are going to find something like the ESV Study Bible, which uses traditional theological words like 'propitiation', 'atonement' and 'Christology' , completely foreign to your understanding of Christianity, and since the evangelicals don't know any better they equate these theological words with 'Calvinism' when really they are simply traditional Christian terminology.

Now, I am not going to say that Catholics won't find anything they disagree with in the ESV Study Bible, but the point is that one ought not confuse the author's concern with theological precision and doctrine with 'Calvinism', it isn't.

rolf said...

I own two copies of the RSV-2CE(leather and hardback) and a copy of the leather NT and Psalms, all three were in exellent condition. My first copy (the leather one) I bought back in May 2006, I use it a lot and it has held up fine. I personally enjoy reading from it, unlike Timothy, I like the their choice of Bible paper, it is also more substantial the the usual thin and transparent Bible paper used in other Bibles.

Anonymous said...

Thanks for the info everyone! As I stated previously, my objections to the ESV Study Bible are in regards to some of the articles in the "Articles and Resources" section, not the bulk of it per se. It probably wasn't fair to characterize it as Calvinist, it's just that I get the sense there's some underlying agenda lurking behind the academic language and passive voice. In addition, I felt that certain segments of the Christian community were unfairly characterized and misrepresented. I think it's fair to say that some of the article writers are not ecumenical.

However, any publisher that wants to put out a Study Bible would do well to study the ESV Study Bible--in many ways it's the best I've ever seen.

The NOAB RSV is probably the best in terms of size. Fairly compact, yet nice type-size. I do wish the arrangement of the books wasn't so odd--they could have at least been consistent. My NOAB NRSV, also edited by Metzger, has the more traditional arrangement of the books.

I'm looking forward to receiving the Ignatius Bible. I like the New Testament very much and find the creme paper and fonts to be easy on the eyes for reading. I just hope I have better luck with this one in terms of quality.

I also have an Orthodox Study Bible on the way which I'm very interested in checking out (aren't gift certificates fun!)


Biblical Catholic said...

Apparently the publication has been delayed, annoying but recall that the original date was Feb 1, it was moved up to Jan 1 because of an unexpectedly large demand. Apparently, they weren't able to get everything ready in the new, shortened schedule.

Biblical Catholic said...

Stupid me, I forgot to include the link