I was a teenager when they started publishing volumes, and at this point I'm afraid I'll be retired (or dead) by the time the entire Bible is finally published. :-)
Any one who wants to realize how rediculous this is getting, take a look at the new NIV study bible that just came out this past week. It makes the ICSB look like it was published in the '70s.
Given that the RSV-2CE is considered to be at least equal to and perhaps slightly greater in esteem than the RSV-CE, I would think the earlier comments regarding the Didache version of the RSV-2CE would truly be a great study bible in its own right.
And interesting difference between the original RSV-CE of 1966 and the RSV-2CE of 2006 can be found in Psalm 8, verse 5.
RSV-CE: Yet thou hast made him little less than God, and dost crown him with glory and honor.
RSV-2CE: Yet you have made him little less than the angels, and you have crowned him with glory and honor.
What is the consensus on this particular difference and in general as to which is the more traditional Catholic wording.
The Douay-Rheims-Challoner, Knox, Confraternity all have it as angels. Confraternity actually capitalizes it as Angels.
NRSV and NRSV-CE have it as God. The NABRE has it as a god.
So I'm interested in how people rate the RSV-CE vs. the RSV-2CE in which is more "Catholic" in wording.
It isn't 15 years! This program - the ICSB - published it's first booklet (Gospel of St. Matthew) in 1998. It's been 17 years.
Timothy, you might want to interview Dr. David Twellman (former Methodist minister). He was responsible for the Minor Prophets in the ICSB. He finished his work more than 6 years ago. It's still not in print! He says the problem is finding editors to check all the work. There are too few orthodox Bible scholars out there.
True Vladimir. Was trying to make it not look so bad. 😀 I have heard similar things, though I wonder if it isn't about "orthodox" editors but rather resources Ignatius is willing and able spend on this.
I don't know Greek or Hebrew but it looks like the translations that went with "god" (or "a god") were translating the word literally, whereas the other translations that opted for "angels" we're interpreting the verse. I mean in some places of the Bible there are these "sons of God" that were actually heavenly beings that later became identified as angels. Maybe it is because of this title for angels in some parts of the Bible that it led the translators (including the Septuagint which remember shows us how Pre-Christian Times Jews were interpreting the. Hebrew text!) to use the world "angels".
I recommend reading up on the HarperCollins Study Bible in the Essay entitled "Israelite Religion" (you can find this at the beginning of the Bible) where they talk about these other heavenly beings who apparently were lesser gods in the Canaanite religion and possibly at one time in early Israelite tradition,
Or...the psalmist was making the point that the NABRE shows us I.e. "a god" instead of The God.
I feel sheepish for having purchased a few of these booklets and thus unwittingly supported this risible "production" (if you can call something so sluggardly productive).
I echo the others in appreciation for the Didache, including with the customer-friendly option of providing two translations (NABRE and RSV).
For a study bible, a period of 15 years is not accommodating, but for an excellent Bible translation, this may be acceptable. A study bible simply annotates an existing text.
I would love to see the 2025 NABRE treated this way so that people would have previews of it, and not to only disappoint us once again (hope this time it's not) after the very long time waiting.
Look at the list of scholars contributing to the new NIV study bible. Imagine if DA Carson and someone with a masters degree had to produce the new NIV study bible by themselves. That's essentially what Scott Hahn and Curtis Mitch are doing with the ICSB.
I don't think that the process of securing a Nihil Obstat and Imprimatur is the cause of delay. Should there be a delay, I think it would not take that long.
Disclaimer: I am an Anglocatholic priest and rector. I have been using the RSV2ce for years and the Didache study bible was my exclusive bible in August. It's excellent. In Sunday school we use the ICSB booklets for the adults currently studying Matthew. The ICSB NT is never far from my study desk as I often find some of the best insights in its resources. Both are well worth the time and investment, however, IMHOTEP, the ICSB NT is superior to the Didache NT resources by virtue of is unique character. IOW, the Didache is not unique material but is simple a condensed Catechism commentary of the text. The ICSB is a much broader synthesis of well sourced materials of various types and offers scholarly insights peculiar to this work. I can get everything from the Catechissm I would get from the Didache. But the ICSB offers that and more.
As for 17 years in production, the RSV team of translators began work in the 40s and completed work in the 70s. The NABRE was begun in the 70s and continues as an ongoing project, parts of which are still a rough draft in print. The NIV study bible, as well as the Didache are not fresh from scratch products but flow from other long term education products. The ICSB however, truly the work of Mitch under supervision, is a from scratch project begun by a then young man recently graduated -which makes it even more amazing. Who new a young novice could produce something so truly helpful?
I'm glad both the Didache and ICSB exist. I will continue to use both and the RSV2ce will continue to be the translation I read and give away as gifts.
PS Ignatius Press, please give Mr Mitch the proper help and incentives so that he may finish his project to the benefit of all. There is a parish in FL eagerly awaiting your publication.
Father Brad, thank you for your insight. I also use the Didache Bible and I have the ICSB app on my iPhone so I have it notes at my finger tips. I have found they are both useful to me, sometimes the Didache Bible comments on something not covered in the ICSB notes and vice-versa. I also balance this with the Catholic Study Bible notes and Reading Guide which I also have on my iPhone.
There is a quantitative difference between the ICSB and the Anchor Bible. The Anchor Bible is far more comprehensive and academic. The ICSB is meant for the average Catholic. There is absolutely no reason for it to take this long. Since the publication of the NIV2011, there has now been two major study bibles released by competent Protestant scholars. Both of these Bibles will look far better than the completed ICSB, which frankly is beginning look like a study Bible from two decades ago, compared to the NIVs, ESV, CEB, and NLT study bibles. These all were completed in a reasonable amount of time. Yet, Ignatius keeps pushing out one or two volumes a year. I think there is no reason why it can't come out in a 5 years and be very good. It has been well over 15 years now without any firm date of completion. This is not a Bible commentary, it's a study Bible.
++ (Fr Brad & Biblical C) I'm happy to have the (differently targeted) Didache IN ADDITION to the (in-progress) ICSB. I agree that quality is worth patience.
Timothy, I am also eager, & hope this is well supported by the publisher. About your "look much better" statement, specifics: are you referring to the content, or to layout plus production quality?
28 comments:
That is why I am glad that the Didache Bible was published, it has taken my mind off the completion date ISCB!
Ditto.
"The last I heard, the date being thrown around was late 2015 or 2016."
And you believe it? President Kanye West will be sworn in before the ICSB is finished!
vladimir998
I was a teenager when they started publishing volumes, and at this point I'm afraid I'll be retired (or dead) by the time the entire Bible is finally published. :-)
Mike,
The length of this project is rediculous. It started in 2000! As Rolf said, thankfully there is the Didache for those who like the RSV-2Ce
How many books are left to be completed in the ICSB?
Well over half the OT.
A new translation of the entire Bible from the original Hebrew and Greek could have been completed in less time!
Michael P.
Any one who wants to realize how rediculous this is getting, take a look at the new NIV study bible that just came out this past week. It makes the ICSB look like it was published in the '70s.
I'm guessing the ICSB is a two person, part-time operation.
(I'm guessing also that the RSV-CE2 was a quick operation by a small number of full-time people.)
I think everyone needs to mentally and emotionally move on from this project and embrace something else!
I simply don't consider it a Bible anymore.
It's a series of commentaries with a specialized house translation.
Christopher and David,
I hate to say it but I agree wholeheartedly. 15 years! 15 Years!
Given that the RSV-2CE is considered to be at least equal to and perhaps slightly greater in esteem than the RSV-CE, I would think
the earlier comments regarding the Didache version of the RSV-2CE
would truly be a great study bible in its own right.
And interesting difference between the original RSV-CE of 1966
and the RSV-2CE of 2006 can be found in Psalm 8, verse 5.
RSV-CE: Yet thou hast made him little less than God,
and dost crown him with glory and honor.
RSV-2CE: Yet you have made him little less than the angels,
and you have crowned him with glory and honor.
What is the consensus on this particular difference and in general
as to which is the more traditional Catholic wording.
The Douay-Rheims-Challoner, Knox, Confraternity all have it as
angels. Confraternity actually capitalizes it as Angels.
NRSV and NRSV-CE have it as God.
The NABRE has it as a god.
So I'm interested in how people rate the RSV-CE vs. the RSV-2CE
in which is more "Catholic" in wording.
P.S.
Some of the translations have it as verse 6.
And the Septuagint translation by Fr. Nicholas King
has it as "You made them a little less than angels;
with glory and honour you crowned them."
It isn't 15 years! This program - the ICSB - published it's first booklet (Gospel of St. Matthew) in 1998. It's been 17 years.
Timothy, you might want to interview Dr. David Twellman (former Methodist minister). He was responsible for the Minor Prophets in the ICSB. He finished his work more than 6 years ago. It's still not in print! He says the problem is finding editors to check all the work. There are too few orthodox Bible scholars out there.
vladimir998
True Vladimir. Was trying to make it not look so bad. 😀 I have heard similar things, though I wonder if it isn't about "orthodox" editors but rather resources Ignatius is willing and able spend on this.
Jeff,
I don't know Greek or Hebrew but it looks like the translations that went with "god" (or "a god") were translating the word literally, whereas the other translations that opted for "angels" we're interpreting the verse. I mean in some places of the Bible there are these "sons of God" that were actually heavenly beings that later became identified as angels. Maybe it is because of this title for angels in some parts of the Bible that it led the translators (including the Septuagint which remember shows us how Pre-Christian Times Jews were interpreting the. Hebrew text!) to use the world "angels".
I recommend reading up on the HarperCollins Study Bible in the Essay entitled "Israelite Religion" (you can find this at the beginning of the Bible) where they talk about these other heavenly beings who apparently were lesser gods in the Canaanite religion and possibly at one time in early Israelite tradition,
Or...the psalmist was making the point that the NABRE shows us I.e. "a god" instead of The God.
---Emilia
I feel sheepish for having purchased a few of these booklets and thus unwittingly supported this risible "production" (if you can call something so sluggardly productive).
I echo the others in appreciation for the Didache, including with the customer-friendly option of providing two translations (NABRE and RSV).
For a study bible, a period of 15 years is not accommodating, but for an excellent Bible translation, this may be acceptable. A study bible simply annotates an existing text.
I would love to see the 2025 NABRE treated this way so that people would have previews of it, and not to only disappoint us once again (hope this time it's not) after the very long time waiting.
Chris, your statement might mirror the NAB, as many patchworks have been done with it, without making really a cohesive edition.
Look at the list of scholars contributing to the new NIV study bible. Imagine if DA Carson and someone with a masters degree had to produce the new NIV study bible by themselves. That's essentially what Scott Hahn and Curtis Mitch are doing with the ICSB.
I don't think that the process of securing a Nihil Obstat and Imprimatur is the cause of delay.
Should there be a delay, I think it would not take that long.
Disclaimer: I am an Anglocatholic priest and rector. I have been using the RSV2ce for years and the Didache study bible was my exclusive bible in August. It's excellent. In Sunday school we use the ICSB booklets for the adults currently studying Matthew. The ICSB NT is never far from my study desk as I often find some of the best insights in its resources. Both are well worth the time and investment, however, IMHOTEP, the ICSB NT is superior to the Didache NT resources by virtue of is unique character. IOW, the Didache is not unique material but is simple a condensed Catechism commentary of the text. The ICSB is a much broader synthesis of well sourced materials of various types and offers scholarly insights peculiar to this work. I can get everything from the Catechissm I would get from the Didache. But the ICSB offers that and more.
As for 17 years in production, the RSV team of translators began work in the 40s and completed work in the 70s. The NABRE was begun in the 70s and continues as an ongoing project, parts of which are still a rough draft in print. The NIV study bible, as well as the Didache are not fresh from scratch products but flow from other long term education products. The ICSB however, truly the work of Mitch under supervision, is a from scratch project begun by a then young man recently graduated -which makes it even more amazing. Who new a young novice could produce something so truly helpful?
I'm glad both the Didache and ICSB exist. I will continue to use both and the RSV2ce will continue to be the translation I read and give away as gifts.
PS Ignatius Press, please give Mr Mitch the proper help and incentives so that he may finish his project to the benefit of all. There is a parish in FL eagerly awaiting your publication.
Father Brad, thank you for your insight. I also use the Didache Bible and I have the ICSB app on my iPhone so I have it notes at my finger tips. I have found they are both useful to me, sometimes the Didache Bible comments on something not covered in the ICSB notes and vice-versa. I also balance this with the Catholic Study Bible notes and Reading Guide which I also have on my iPhone.
15 years is nothing.
Ever heard of the Anchor Bible Commentary?
Work on that began in 1956, and here we are 120 published volumes later, and it STILL ISN'T DONE!
Making a good Bible Commentary takes time. Do you want it fast or do you want it good? It can't be both.
BC,
There is a quantitative difference between the ICSB and the Anchor Bible. The Anchor Bible is far more comprehensive and academic. The ICSB is meant for the average Catholic. There is absolutely no reason for it to take this long. Since the publication of the NIV2011, there has now been two major study bibles released by competent Protestant scholars. Both of these Bibles will look far better than the completed ICSB, which frankly is beginning look like a study Bible from two decades ago, compared to the NIVs, ESV, CEB, and NLT study bibles. These all were completed in a reasonable amount of time. Yet, Ignatius keeps pushing out one or two volumes a year. I think there is no reason why it can't come out in a 5 years and be very good. It has been well over 15 years now without any firm date of completion. This is not a Bible commentary, it's a study Bible.
++ (Fr Brad & Biblical C) I'm happy to have the (differently targeted) Didache IN ADDITION to the (in-progress) ICSB. I agree that quality is worth patience.
Timothy, I am also eager, & hope this is well supported by the publisher. About your "look much better" statement, specifics: are you referring to the content, or to layout plus production quality?
SHALOM!
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