I voted a new Catholic translation. I still think despite the setback an ESV Catholic edition will be approved by one or more English speaking Bishops conferences. It will look essentially like the RSV-2CE with a few changes (Amen instead of Truly, etc.).
I think the NABRE (and its next NT revision) will become even more popular in the U.S. when its is used in the Lectionary for Mass. I also think that the RSV-2CE will be very popular since the advent of the Didache Bible and also the forthcoming Ignatius Catholic Study Bible (if it is completed by 2025?) :-)
Tim, I suspect the NAB-RE will be the most popular strictly because of it's use in the lectionary not because of the quality of its translation (RSV/ESV) or its commentaries (Diadache bibles). Oh well...
The NABRE is really growing on me, much as I like the RSV-2CE. The Didache Bible with both the NABRE notes as well as notes from the CCC is excellent, and I think will help solidify the NABRE's dominance.
Max, I also had used the RSV-2CE as my main translation from 2006 (when it was published) till 2011 when the NABRE was published. Then several years of back and forth between the two translations. Over the last year I have made the NABRE my main translation, but I still use the RSV-2CE (and others) a lot!
I voted NABre because it's the most mainstream. More conservative Catholics will split between RSVCE, DOUAY. Those not bothered by inclusive language will tend towards the NSRV. Thus the broad middle, i.e. NABre. Plus it helps that NABre is said to be getting with each revision (wags say it had no where to go but up).
Given the extreme anti-Catholicism exhibited by Crossway publicly, I am at a complete loss for why any Catholic would want a translation of the Bible paid for a published by that organization. Really, I just do not understand it at all. I know my answer would be the NRSV, but honestly I'm only speaking for myself when I say that. I fully expect it will have faded into obscurity by then. As a non-Catholic watching the process from the outside, the NABre seems like it just has too many issues. The RSV-2CE is not being afforded the respect it deserves (again, why would any Catholic go with the ESV when the RSV-2CE exists, unless pretty goatskin editions sway your purchasing power). Frankly, a new Catholic translation would be great, but the bureaucracy involved would probably either turn it into another NABre or it wouldn't even get started until sometime after 2025.
I voted for the Amended NABRE. If the USCCB and CBA would remove the "American" tag in the title of the version, this can catch some attention in the territories using Jerusalem Bible-based lectionaries.
Any reincarnations of the RSV/NRSV would be a difficult one to produce due to complicated negotiations with the NCC, much moe for the ESV for the Crossway.
An ESV/Catholic edition depends on the ESV copyright holders granting permission for it. As previously reported on Catholic Bibles, such permission for an ESV Catholic lectionary was provisionally granted to the committee representing English-speaking Catholic hierarchies outside the United States and Canada for such a work. After the first volume (for Sundays and major feasts) was completed, the permission was withdrawn presumably because of disagreement with changes made in the ESV text to conform to Catholic teaching (such as changing "The church is a pillar and mainstay or truth" to "The church is the pillar and mainstay of truth." The conservative Protestant editors of the ESV made many of those changes to correct the liberal Protestant bias in the RSV text.
The National Council of Churches copyright holder of the NRSV has earlier granted a similar permission to the same committee but also withdrew it presumably after seeing some drafts of selected passages which made too may changes in the NRSV's inclusive language.
After with failing twice in trying to produce a lectionary based on a basically formal-equivalent Bible translation such as the ESV or the NRSV, the committee decided to return to the dynamic-equivalent Jerusalem (or New Jerusalem) Bible as the basis for its lectionary.
Why did the committee not adopt Ignatius Press' already-existing RSV/2CE lectionary? I can only guess: Because similar to the RSV/CE, the 2CE is based on the original RSV (NT - 1946, OT - 1952, and Apoc/Deut - 1957) and did not incorporate critical-textual in the later editions of the RSV.
I am surprised that the committee has not considered another formal-equivalent lectionary, apparently a work still "in progress" - namely the Canadian revised NRSV lectionary. In 1992 the Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops issued a lectionary based on the NRSV without any textual changes (as had been the practice of previously produced lectionaries based on the NAB, JB and RSV/CE). In the interim the Holy See had decided to order changes in the lectionary texts to conform to Catholic doctrine (such as the Angel Gabriel's salutation to the Blessed Virgin Mary "Hail, full of grace" rather than "Hail, highly favored one" or whatever variant). Thus the Holy See decreed that the Canadian NRSV lectionary could no longer be printed for the above reason especially caused by instances of its extensive inclusive language. The Holy See did not entirely rule out an/the NRSV lectionary. It allowed the continued use and sale of the NRSV lectionary until the existing stock ran out - and authorized the preparation of a revised NRSV lectionary based on negotiations concerning the text involving the Holy See, the CCCB and the NCC. The first volume (for Sundays and major feasts) appeared in 2007. the second volumes (actually volume 3 for "Ritual Masses, Masses for Various Needs and Occasions, Votive Masses, Masses for the Dead" was published at the end of 2014 without much fanfare (see https://esubmitit.sjpg.com/cccb/index.aspx?component=ProductDetails&id=182-333 ). The third volume for weekdays (in two volumes) is tentatively scheduled for some time in 2016.
Thus, is there still a possibility for an NRV/CE based as an outcome of the revised Canadian lectionary
A couple of thoughts here. I really think that at least in the US there isn't any question that the NABRE will be the go to. It's the lectionary translation and of course it get the most support among publishers. The Little Rock Study Bible is the best thing to come along in a study bible in years...at least I'm assuming until the Ignatius Study Bible is finally released.
I really want to like the NABRE. I like what was done with the Little Rock Study Bible. But there are just some really poorly translated or worded sections especially of Pauls letters. I'm a lector and there are some phrases that have 3 to 4 parenthetical phrases withing one sentence.
I'm leaning toward using the Jerusalem Bible as my go to. The CTS Jerusalem with the Grail Psalms is really my favorite. I was hoping for a slightly wider bible from them that would be more like a 6 x 9 and a touch thinner.
I vote for the NABRE. Both the NABRE and RSV-2CE are excellent translation.The NABRE has an advantage over the RSV-CE though; it is a Catholic translation actually and not a "Catholic-converted" one. It also has the authority of the U.S. Bishops behind it. It's revision is supposed to conform it to the Nova-Vulgata as well (there doing a major revision of the New Testament; and some work on the Old Testament) which would increase its popularity too.
A new translation by 2025 would be nearly impossible. Given how long it takes to produce a new translation, or even just a revision of an existing translation, it would have had to have been started years ago to be ready by 2025.
It took 15 years to produce the RSV (1937-1952) It took 15 years to produce the NRSV (1974-1989) It took 24 years to produce the New English Bible (1946-1970) It took 26 years to produce the NAB (1944-1970) It took 19 years to produce the Revised English Bible (1970-1989) It took 22 years to produce the NIV (1956-1978)
Producing a new translation in only 10 years would nearly impossible. It would really need to be well on the way right now to be ready by 2025.
Regarding new translation has anyone been to the Catholic Book Publishing site recently? Check out the 2015 new book catalog and you will see that they are releasing a New Testament pocket size bible with a NEW translation---New Catholic Version---. According to the description the New Testament translation was done by the same team that produced the New Catholic Version of the Psalms back in 2002.
Biblical Catholic, that link to Catholic Book Publishing leads to the New Testament NCV but the picture on the link is a NAB NT and the sample text is the NAB. Just for info, The NCV Psalms (St. Joseph Editon) has been around for a long time (2002) and is on the approved reading list at the USCCB. I have never read the NCV translation of the Psalms but I have seen it at my local Catholic bookstore.
The New Catholic Version Psalms were released in 2002 (or 2004); they are approved by the USCCB. I wrote Catholic Book Publishing about the Psalms and they told me they were for prayer and not liturgical use. More information can be found here: http://bibles.wikidot.com/newcatholic
Amazon has a release date of July 1 for a paperback New Catholic Version New Testament; the ISBN is 9781941243329. As for the name of the NAB/RE, I would bring back the Confraternity name. It would reduce confusion with the NASB and save a few pennies on the large red Catholic stickers slapped on some NAB/RE boxes. I see them in bookstores.
As to the NCV Psalms, I have read the questions asked by 'anonymous' and updated my entry on http://bibles.wikidot.com/newcatholic; All I could find out about "what do they say about" is now online.
I voted a new Catholic translation. I still think despite the setback an ESV Catholic edition will be approved by one or more English speaking Bishops conferences. It will look essentially like the RSV-2CE with a few changes (Amen instead of Truly, etc.).
ReplyDeleteI think the NABRE (and its next NT revision) will become even more popular in the U.S. when its is used in the Lectionary for Mass. I also think that the RSV-2CE will be very popular since the advent of the Didache Bible and also the forthcoming Ignatius Catholic Study Bible (if it is completed by 2025?) :-)
ReplyDeleteTim, I suspect the NAB-RE will be the most popular strictly because of it's use in the lectionary not because of the quality of its translation (RSV/ESV) or its commentaries (Diadache bibles). Oh well...
DeleteThe NABRE is really growing on me, much as I like the RSV-2CE. The Didache Bible with both the NABRE notes as well as notes from the CCC is excellent, and I think will help solidify the NABRE's dominance.
ReplyDeleteMax, I also had used the RSV-2CE as my main translation from 2006 (when it was published) till 2011 when the NABRE was published. Then several years of back and forth between the two translations. Over the last year I have made the NABRE my main translation, but I still use the RSV-2CE (and others) a lot!
ReplyDeleteI voted NABre because it's the most mainstream. More conservative Catholics will split between RSVCE, DOUAY. Those not bothered by inclusive language will tend towards the NSRV. Thus the broad middle, i.e. NABre. Plus it helps that NABre is said to be getting with each revision (wags say it had no where to go but up).
ReplyDeleteGiven the extreme anti-Catholicism exhibited by Crossway publicly, I am at a complete loss for why any Catholic would want a translation of the Bible paid for a published by that organization. Really, I just do not understand it at all. I know my answer would be the NRSV, but honestly I'm only speaking for myself when I say that. I fully expect it will have faded into obscurity by then. As a non-Catholic watching the process from the outside, the NABre seems like it just has too many issues. The RSV-2CE is not being afforded the respect it deserves (again, why would any Catholic go with the ESV when the RSV-2CE exists, unless pretty goatskin editions sway your purchasing power). Frankly, a new Catholic translation would be great, but the bureaucracy involved would probably either turn it into another NABre or it wouldn't even get started until sometime after 2025.
ReplyDeleteA new translation : Common English Bible (2011)
ReplyDeleteI voted for the Amended NABRE. If the USCCB and CBA would remove the "American" tag in the title of the version, this can catch some attention in the territories using Jerusalem Bible-based lectionaries.
ReplyDeleteAny reincarnations of the RSV/NRSV would be a difficult one to produce due to complicated negotiations with the NCC, much moe for the ESV for the Crossway.
An ESV/Catholic edition depends on the ESV copyright holders granting permission for it. As previously reported on Catholic Bibles, such permission for an ESV Catholic lectionary was provisionally granted to the committee representing English-speaking Catholic hierarchies outside the United States and Canada for such a work. After the first volume (for Sundays and major feasts) was completed, the permission was withdrawn presumably because of disagreement with changes made in the ESV text to conform to Catholic teaching (such as changing "The church is a pillar and mainstay or truth" to "The church is the pillar and mainstay of truth." The conservative Protestant editors of the ESV made many of those changes to correct the liberal Protestant bias in the RSV text.
ReplyDeleteThe National Council of Churches copyright holder of the NRSV has earlier granted a similar permission to the same committee but also withdrew it presumably after seeing some drafts of selected passages which made too may changes in the NRSV's inclusive language.
After with failing twice in trying to produce a lectionary based on a basically formal-equivalent Bible translation such as the ESV or the NRSV, the committee decided to return to the dynamic-equivalent Jerusalem (or New Jerusalem) Bible as the basis for its lectionary.
Why did the committee not adopt Ignatius Press' already-existing RSV/2CE lectionary? I can only guess: Because similar to the RSV/CE, the 2CE is based on the original RSV (NT - 1946, OT - 1952, and Apoc/Deut - 1957) and did not incorporate critical-textual in the later editions of the RSV.
I am surprised that the committee has not considered another formal-equivalent lectionary, apparently a work still "in progress" - namely the Canadian revised NRSV lectionary. In 1992 the Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops issued a lectionary based on the NRSV without any textual changes (as had been the practice of previously produced lectionaries based on the NAB, JB and RSV/CE). In the interim the Holy See had decided to order changes in the lectionary texts to conform to Catholic doctrine (such as the Angel Gabriel's salutation to the Blessed Virgin Mary "Hail, full of grace" rather than "Hail, highly favored one" or whatever variant). Thus the Holy See decreed that the Canadian NRSV lectionary could no longer be printed for the above reason especially caused by instances of its extensive inclusive language. The Holy See did not entirely rule out an/the NRSV lectionary. It allowed the continued use and sale of the NRSV lectionary until the existing stock ran out - and authorized the preparation of a revised NRSV lectionary based on negotiations concerning the text involving the Holy See, the CCCB and the NCC. The first volume (for Sundays and major feasts) appeared in 2007. the second volumes (actually volume 3 for "Ritual Masses, Masses for Various Needs and Occasions, Votive Masses, Masses for the Dead" was published at the end of 2014 without much fanfare (see https://esubmitit.sjpg.com/cccb/index.aspx?component=ProductDetails&id=182-333 ). The third volume for weekdays (in two volumes) is tentatively scheduled for some time in 2016.
Thus, is there still a possibility for an NRV/CE based as an outcome of the revised Canadian lectionary
A couple of thoughts here. I really think that at least in the US there isn't any question that the NABRE will be the go to. It's the lectionary translation and of course it get the most support among publishers. The Little Rock Study Bible is the best thing to come along in a study bible in years...at least I'm assuming until the Ignatius Study Bible is finally released.
ReplyDeleteI really want to like the NABRE. I like what was done with the Little Rock Study Bible. But there are just some really poorly translated or worded sections especially of Pauls letters. I'm a lector and there are some phrases that have 3 to 4 parenthetical phrases withing one sentence.
I'm leaning toward using the Jerusalem Bible as my go to. The CTS Jerusalem with the Grail Psalms is really my favorite. I was hoping for a slightly wider bible from them that would be more like a 6 x 9 and a touch thinner.
Keith
I vote for the NABRE. Both the NABRE and RSV-2CE are excellent translation.The NABRE has an advantage over the RSV-CE though; it is a Catholic translation actually and not a "Catholic-converted" one. It also has the authority of the U.S. Bishops behind it. It's revision is supposed to conform it to the Nova-Vulgata as well (there doing a major revision of the New Testament; and some work on the Old Testament) which would increase its popularity too.
ReplyDeleteA "new" Catholic translation? Do you know something privileged?
ReplyDeleteA new translation by 2025 would be nearly impossible. Given how long it takes to produce a new translation, or even just a revision of an existing translation, it would have had to have been started years ago to be ready by 2025.
ReplyDeleteIt took 15 years to produce the RSV (1937-1952)
It took 15 years to produce the NRSV (1974-1989)
It took 24 years to produce the New English Bible (1946-1970)
It took 26 years to produce the NAB (1944-1970)
It took 19 years to produce the Revised English Bible (1970-1989)
It took 22 years to produce the NIV (1956-1978)
Producing a new translation in only 10 years would nearly impossible. It would really need to be well on the way right now to be ready by 2025.
Regarding new translation has anyone been to the Catholic Book Publishing site recently? Check out the 2015 new book catalog and you will see that they are releasing a New Testament pocket size bible with a NEW translation---New Catholic Version---. According to the description the New Testament translation was done by the same team that produced the New Catholic Version of the Psalms back in 2002.
ReplyDeleteCan anyone shed light on this translation?
Lenny
I cannot find any information on the New Catholic Version anywhere.
ReplyDelete
ReplyDelete@ Biblical Catholic
http://www.catholicbookpublishing.com/products/53
It gives a preview of it.
Pax
Biblical Catholic, that link to Catholic Book Publishing leads to the New Testament NCV but the picture on the link is a NAB NT and the sample text is the NAB. Just for info, The NCV Psalms (St. Joseph Editon) has been around for a long time (2002) and is on the approved reading list at the USCCB. I have never read the NCV translation of the Psalms but I have seen it at my local Catholic bookstore.
ReplyDeleteThe New Catholic Version Psalms were released in 2002 (or 2004); they are approved by the USCCB. I wrote Catholic Book Publishing about the Psalms and they told me they were for prayer and not liturgical use. More information can be found here: http://bibles.wikidot.com/newcatholic
ReplyDeleteAnonymous,
ReplyDeleteThat link doesn't give any information about the translation, it doesn't answer basic questions like
Who authorized the translation and when?
Why was it authorized?
Who are the translators?
What are the qualifications of the translators?
What is the translation philosophy of the text?
What is the purpose of the translation?
Does it have, or do they seek to obtain and imprimatur?
All these kinds of questions are usually answered in the preface, but I'm not about to buy it just to read the preface, assuming it has one.
Amazon has a release date of July 1 for a paperback New Catholic Version New Testament; the ISBN is 9781941243329. As for the name of the NAB/RE, I would bring back the Confraternity name. It would reduce confusion with the NASB and save a few pennies on the large red Catholic stickers slapped on some NAB/RE boxes. I see them in bookstores.
ReplyDeleteAs to the NCV Psalms, I have read the questions asked by 'anonymous' and updated my entry on http://bibles.wikidot.com/newcatholic;
ReplyDeleteAll I could find out about "what do they say about" is now online.