tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5272296692697032264.post3541648571835820084..comments2024-03-09T04:22:11.040-08:00Comments on Catholic Bibles: NABRE Answers (from Facebook Site)Timothyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12530713931306188305noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5272296692697032264.post-2839188184887682192011-01-12T04:44:34.775-08:002011-01-12T04:44:34.775-08:00Carlos,
Thanks for stopping by the blog and for y...Carlos,<br /><br />Thanks for stopping by the blog and for your contribution to this post. I think you bring up some very good and valid points. For me at least, I just want a good translation which I can use for both study and prayer. I always enjoy using a Missal at Mass, so if the readings are a little different than so be it. Ultimately, the NABRE is a revision, so while there will be some differences bewteen the older and newer edition of the Old Testament, it won't be so radically different.Timothyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12530713931306188305noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5272296692697032264.post-85684960613012211672011-01-11T18:38:59.643-08:002011-01-11T18:38:59.643-08:007) Will it include the apocryphal works that are f...7) Will it include the apocryphal works that are found in the new Vulgate (but not presently in the NAB) like Psalm 151?<br /><br />No. The NABRE includes only the canon of Scripture as delineated by the Councils of the Church.<br /><br />Bummer for Eastern Byzantine Catholics and Eastern Orthodox Christians, since Psalm 151 is considered canonical according to our Byzantine tradition.Roberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01725445787551443589noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5272296692697032264.post-80100718317839328852011-01-11T15:54:04.884-08:002011-01-11T15:54:04.884-08:00Hi Diakonos,
I think the issue is this:
Liturgiam...Hi Diakonos,<br /><br />I think the issue is this:<br /><i>Liturgiam Authenticam</i> says that there should only be one lectionary for a single language inside an episcopal conference. Additionally, the single translation should follow the <i>Nova Vulgata</i> as closely as possible.<br /><br /><i>Divino Afflante Spiritu</i> said that scholarly study of scripture should be based on the original languages and not on Latin translations such as the vulgate.<br /><br />Somehow Ignatius Press was able to square this circle, as their RSV seems to match the lectionary in the Antilles very closely.<br /><br />For those of us in the United States, I guess the only way we're going to get something like that is if someone uses the NABRE as a base text to translate the NV, similar to how the NRSV was used to translate the LXX.Francescohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11703915681289765554noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5272296692697032264.post-59493617237585571962011-01-11T14:23:39.311-08:002011-01-11T14:23:39.311-08:00I never heard before that the lectionary readings ...I never heard before that the lectionary readings are translated from the Latin apart from any other Scripture source. I thought every nation or language group selected a translation of the Scriptures used in their country/language group for use in the liturgy.Diakonoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16896251554818257122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5272296692697032264.post-29299201848984533972011-01-11T14:05:03.841-08:002011-01-11T14:05:03.841-08:00Correct me if I am wrong, but even though I like t...Correct me if I am wrong, but even though I like the idea that our Bibles and the Lectionary readings would match exactly, there is no rule or law that says they have to, is there?<br /><br />I mean is not our Liturgy a translation from the Latin? It's a text of a worship ceremony, no? The Bible is a totally different thing, I thought. <br /><br />Is it not a kindness that instead of translating those parts of the Lectionary that read from the Bible directly from Latin that a translation in English is chosen that is easily available to me or already in my home? The readings are merely BASED on the version in my language, but only as long as they represent what is in the "worship script," so to speak, right? This way we can have a translation from the original texts that closely resembles what we hear in the Liturgy (since, again, this is a translation of a public worship ceremony). They could translate even the Bible readings exactly as found in the Latin into English just as they appear in the Liturgy, but then I wouldn't have anything in common available to me on my book shelf or when I read and discuss the Bible with others.<br /><br />Besides, a Lectionary will never read exactly like any Bible version. As mentioned in this blog and in catechesis, incipits and other changes often appear due to the fact that it is written to be understood by listeners and NOT readers. These interpolated additions have never been a part of the inspired text, so in that sense alone I shouldn't expect any Bible translation, even the Latin, to read exactly like what I hear from the Lectionary, correct? (Not even the CTS or RSV-CE 2nd Edition has incipits included, so they don't exactly match any lectionary reading at any time either.)<br /><br />Maybe I'm a total idiot, but I've been reading this blog and others for a while and I'm left scratching my head. What's the reason for fussing over two different things being different due to the fact that by they're very nature they just also happen to be different?<br /><br />The Liturgy is a translation from the Latin, including the Bible readings found within, which when rendering into English BORROWS the language of an already published translation--be it the RSV or NAB--and only changes things where the Latin liturgical text differs from the English Biblical text. Any English rendering is adjusted to match the Latin, not the other way around, right?<br /><br />And in the end if I want to read exactly what is found in the Lectionary, can't I just buy an annual Missal or even a Lectionary itself if I have the money? And while I know our Liturgy comes from our Latin tradition, shouldn't I be thankful that my religion supplies me with translations of the Scriptures directly from the originally penned tongues as well?<br /><br />One's a translation of a very long prayer (the Mass in Latin--which includes readings FROM the Bible) and the other is a translation of the Bible--the inspired Word of God--from the original languages itself.<br /><br />It's just a fact of life that the Liturgy is in Latin and gets translated from one language and the Bible from three different others. The Liturgy, though quoting the Bible, never quotes an English translation as if an English translation is the basis for the Liturgy. Should I be expecting it to? <br /><br />Am I missing something in all this, or are we just lamenting the fact that our apples aren't oranges?Carlos Marroquin, Corpus Christi, TXnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5272296692697032264.post-42767117049974916532011-01-11T11:52:28.703-08:002011-01-11T11:52:28.703-08:00I think Ignatius Press publishing ANY edition of t...I think Ignatius Press publishing ANY edition of the NABRE would be a sure sign of the coming of the Great Abomindation and the Parousia. :)Diakonoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16896251554818257122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5272296692697032264.post-56100270672935381362011-01-11T08:31:25.732-08:002011-01-11T08:31:25.732-08:00As the next couple of months proceed, I do look fo...As the next couple of months proceed, I do look forward to seeing the variety of publishers and styles that the new text will be offered in. The unattractive formats of the previous NAB is what kept me away from it despite my appreciation for the text and the notes. I'm already slightly disappointed in the binding options for the compact Oxford. Oxford's cloth hardback RSV-CE is among my favorites. I hate zippers as much as I hate this pacific duvelle craze. I wonder if Ignatius Press plans on offering anything? Or do they have too much of a marketing investment in the RSV-2CE yet to think about broadening their options? Regardless, I do look forward to picking up a copy on 03/09/11 and using it throughout all of Lent.Christopher W. Speakshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04401487206503969793noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5272296692697032264.post-20712496579703261852011-01-11T08:05:23.840-08:002011-01-11T08:05:23.840-08:00Diakonos,
You "whining" points are vali...Diakonos,<br /><br />You "whining" points are valid. :)<br /><br />Having done parish Bible studies before, I tend to like having multiple translations used by those who attend. I have found that it actually enhances discussion, particularly when the rendering I may use is different than someone else. It usually ends up being a good discussion point. Perhaps the only down side is that, as a leader, you need to be aware of some of the major differences. However, I have not found that to be the case all that often when using either the NAB, RSV, or NRSV, which are reasonably close to one another in translation philosophy. It gets a little different if people are using the JB or NJB, or less formal translations like the Good News Bible.Timothyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12530713931306188305noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5272296692697032264.post-33899042995233599752011-01-11T07:54:10.905-08:002011-01-11T07:54:10.905-08:00A few things:
1. Taking a razor to the notes in b...A few things:<br /><br />1. Taking a razor to the notes in back. I THINK (if memory serves)that the notes are in the back of EACH book, not in the back of the Bible so I don't think the razor idea (nice as it is) will be doable. :)<br /><br />2. As an outspoken critic of the notes I must be honest and say that I do not hate ALL the notes nor think ALL are weak or poor or whatever adjective fits. But it's frustrating for a non-scholar like me to try and figure out which to accept, which to modify and which to reject...and I know from learned others that all of the above categories for the notes exist in the NAB and now the NABRE.<br /><br />3. I know this is useless whining BUT its also frustrating that the NABRE NT will not correspond exactly to the lectionary because this means parish classes or study groups need to have a missal in addition to the NABRE. Tough enough to get some parishoners to fork over the bucks for a decent Bible...now they need additional bucks for a missal as well.<br /><br />4. Has anyone with parish Bible study experience (using the Sunday readings) found this lack of uniformity to be an issue in the past? I mean...is it terrible difficult for "rookie level" students to have varying translations when doing such a study?Diakonoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16896251554818257122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5272296692697032264.post-19504010138990375632011-01-11T03:49:11.675-08:002011-01-11T03:49:11.675-08:00Well, I am very grateful for the time being taken ...Well, I am very grateful for the time being taken to answer the questions that were posted (and I also thank Timothy for the answers being posted on this blog!). I won't pretend that I am exactly a big fan of the NAB (especially the notes), but it is nevertheless nice to be able to have a better idea of what to expect, and I do wish to thank whoever answered the questions! <br /><br />I also like that there is an edition of the NAB being released with the notes at the back of each book. I'll be honest that I would prefer to have an edition without the notes (i.e., the ones that are presently included, that is), but at least this is something. :-)Mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00108843791322871067noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5272296692697032264.post-46476321938708016622011-01-10T17:33:03.954-08:002011-01-10T17:33:03.954-08:00The answer to question #14 is troubling. Is she a...The answer to question #14 is troubling. Is she asserting that the translators do not believe that the later theological development regarding the Holy Spirit is not directly warranted by the text? While there is no question that some theological development occurred, the personhood, deity and work of the Holy Spirit are accurate reflections of what is contained in the Bible, in both the Old & New Testaments. Benedict XVI has taught that the phrase "Holy Spirit" should be rendered with a capital "H" and capital "S" in the Bible. The new translation should reflect that. In addition, other key texts should be translated in a way that reflects Catholic teaching ("hail full of grace,"), much in the way the 1986 Revised NT translates "elders" as "presbyters" when referring to early Church leaders. <br /><br />Not revising the NT to conform to what is found in the lectionary is a disastrous decision. Likewise, while the OT was being revised, why couldn't the portions of the NAB lectionary OT be used? If that had happened, we would have had a Bible translation that reflected what was used in the liturgy. As it is now, we won't even have a proper "base text" for the entire lectionary anymore -- we will have a new OT that may or may not reflect the core of what is found in the lectionary. <br /><br />All of this means, unfortunately, that the NABRE will not be able to be a stand-alone translation for the Catholic reader. In order to get a fully Catholic understanding of scripture, one will have to have one of the older Catholic translations (Douay-Rheims, Confraternity-Rheims, RSVCE) to use alongside the new NAB revision. And even then, one won't have a copy of the text used in the lectionary. What a disappointment. <br /><br />I am still looking forward to the release of the NABRE and plan on getting a copy and using it for devotions and study. Unfortunately, it won't be able to be the only Bible on my bookshelf.Mark D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/05000893614655251587noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5272296692697032264.post-90749464314281577662011-01-10T17:10:22.182-08:002011-01-10T17:10:22.182-08:00Brad,
In addition, Oxford typically makes quality...Brad,<br /><br />In addition, Oxford typically makes quality Bibles, so it will be an edition that will last a long time.<br /><br />Also, thanks for the comment! That last part made me laugh.Timothyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12530713931306188305noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5272296692697032264.post-14149927737250606632011-01-10T17:08:55.239-08:002011-01-10T17:08:55.239-08:00I'll will probably purchase the large print ed...I'll will probably purchase the large print edition from Oxford in genuine leather when it comes out in March. This edition does have the notes in the back for those who don't want to look at them, they don't bother me.rolfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00950594541531178789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5272296692697032264.post-82043115644330798362011-01-10T16:59:27.610-08:002011-01-10T16:59:27.610-08:00I am super stoked about the notes-at-the-back edit...I am super stoked about the notes-at-the-back edition. What a relief! I might even let my children have one - after I take a sharpie and a razor to it. Whew!<br /><br />BradAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5272296692697032264.post-25829567261248033312011-01-10T16:37:02.269-08:002011-01-10T16:37:02.269-08:00Diakonos,
Actually, the edition you references is...Diakonos,<br /><br />Actually, the edition you references is a more portable edition of the NABRE.. That looks very similar to the edition that they previously offered. And with the fact that the notes are at the back of each book, this might appeal to some people like Matt who don't want the notes to look at. It comes out in March, while a new edition of the Catholic Study Bible comes out in the summer.Timothyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12530713931306188305noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5272296692697032264.post-79378673099641632312011-01-10T15:27:44.733-08:002011-01-10T15:27:44.733-08:00It looks the Catholic Study Bible will be release ...It looks the Catholic Study Bible will be release in July. That's pretty quick.Timothyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12530713931306188305noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5272296692697032264.post-85221517237064264882011-01-10T15:22:30.531-08:002011-01-10T15:22:30.531-08:00Big surprise. They didn't give a reason why t...Big surprise. They didn't give a reason why the revisions to the NT made for the Lectionary were not added to the NABRE, i.e., "Hail full of grace". If they went through the trouble to re-do the Psalms, they certainly could have revised the NT to match the Lectionary. So sad and a terrible missed opportunity.Dan K.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5272296692697032264.post-8496802900342467642011-01-10T14:44:00.115-08:002011-01-10T14:44:00.115-08:00OXFORD UNIVERSITY PRESS advertises its NABRE - htt...OXFORD UNIVERSITY PRESS advertises its NABRE - http://www.oup.com/us/catalog/general/subject/Bibles/TextReferenceBibles/NewAmericanBible/?view=usa&ci=9780195298024<br /><br />First ad I have seen from a major publishing house. special additions look pretty good including a concordance & readings for daily and Sunday Mass:<br /><br />- Dogmatic Constitution on Divine Revelation (Dei Verbum ) <br />- Placement of the NABRE notes at the end of each book to enhance the readability of the biblical text <br />- A select NABRE Concordance <br />-Essay on using the Lectionary <br />-Table of Weekday and Sunday -Lectionary readings <br />-Table of weights and measures in the BibleDiakonoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16896251554818257122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5272296692697032264.post-76388948996046103982011-01-10T14:22:06.643-08:002011-01-10T14:22:06.643-08:00One thing that intrigues me is the effort made in ...One thing that intrigues me is the effort made in the OT notes to promote canonical exegesis. It will be interesting to see how successful they will be in this.Timothyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12530713931306188305noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5272296692697032264.post-81622004569378235552011-01-10T14:13:15.690-08:002011-01-10T14:13:15.690-08:00Well I knew that the NT notes would most liekly be...Well I knew that the NT notes would most liekly be untouched but was holding out hope anyway. I read Scripture daily but apart from the litrugy (Mass, Office) I read the NT almost exclusively (except if referred to an OT in reading) so this news is rather disappointing. So for me...I already have a NAB NT with study guide by Kathryn Sullivan, RSCJ (excellent BTW), so unless I really am into the OT for studies there would be no rush to get the latest edition. Thanks for posting these Q&As.Diakonoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16896251554818257122noreply@blogger.com