Wednesday, June 23, 2010

RSV-CE vs. RSV-2CE: Psalm 85

Back in December I devoted a series of posts looking at the differences between the old RSV-CE and the Ignatius RSV-2CE. In these posts, I was not concerned so much about the elimination of the archaic language, which is both substantial and helpful to the modern Bible reader, but rather the various undocumented changes to the actual translation. In most cases, I found that the updated RSV-2CE was correct in making the adjustments it did, and really the only case which I found somewhat unnecessary was the use of "chalice" instead of "cup". Of course, this whole process of spotting the differences between the two would have been helped by a little more specific information from Ignatius Press, but nothing, as far as I know, has ever been released. The only real help, besides actually reading both editions side by side, came with the publication of the Emmaus Press Catholic Bible Concordance, which contained a section at the back noting the differences. As noted, the changes were significant. I have always wondered how the changes in the RSV-2CE matched up with the changes found in the other recent update of the original RSV, the English Standard Version. Perhaps we will never know.

This brings me to this post, which came about through my reading of Psalm 85 last night with my wife. We are still using the fine book Praying the Psalms with the Early Christians as a nightly devotional, which I highly recommend. While reading through it, which uses the original RSV-CE as it's base text, I noticed that there are a few translational choices that were made, outside of the elimination of the archaic language. So I have decided to show the original RSV-CE below, with the main translational differences in the RSV-2CE found in bold where appropriate:

Psalm 85
LORD, thou wast favorable to thy land;
thou didst restore the fortunes (captives) of Jacob.
Thou didst forgive the iniquity of thy people;
thou didst pardon all their sin. [Selah]
Thou didst withdraw all thy wrath;
thou didst turn from thy hot anger.

Restore us again, O God of our salvation,
and put away thy indignation toward us!
Wilt thou be angry with us for ever?
Wilt thou prolong thy anger to all generations?
Wilt thou not revive us again,
that thy people may rejoice in thee?
Show us thy steadfast (merciful) love, O LORD,
and grant us thy salvation.

Let me hear what God the LORD will speak,
for he will speak peace to his people,
to his saints, to those who turn to him in their hearts.
Surely his salvation is at hand for those who fear him,
that glory may dwell in our land.

Steadfast love (Mercy) and faithfulness will meet;
righteousness and peace will kiss each other.
Faithfulness will spring up from the ground,
and righteousness will look down from the sky (heaven).
Yea, the LORD will give what is good,
and our land will yield its increase.
Righteousness will go before him,
and make his footsteps a way.

Some comparisons to consider:
1) NRSV: Remains identical in the points highlighted above with original RSV
2) ESV: Remains identical in the points highlighted above with the original RSV
3) Douay-Rheims: The changes made to the RSV-2CE match the Douay-Rheims
4) NJB: Uses "captives" instead of "fortunes", as well as "heaven" instead of "sky"

Again the conclusion that we can make is that the RSV-2CE sides with the Douay-Rheims in most cases. It would be helpful, at some point, to have a complete chart of these changes. So far, the reasoning behind the changes have only been hinted at a year and a half back when Fr. Fessio commented on this blog. While not being specific, his response at least gives us the rationale for what went on between Ignatius Press and the Vatican. I hope to show some more instances of the differences between the two as I spot them.

14 comments:

rolf said...

I made a quick check of the NETS translation of the Septuagent and it translates those highlighted words as:

you turned away the 'captivity' of Jacob.

Show us, O lord, your 'mercy,'

and righteousness peered down from the 'sky.'

So two out of three it translates closer to the RSV-2CE.

Keith said...

Couldn't find an email address so I'm posting a link to a PDF on the CSS Bible being published by St. Benedict Press this fall in case you hadn't heard.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2632035/CSSBibleFlyer.pdf

Anonymous said...

In addition to the differences between the RSV-CE and RSV-CE, there is a third text. Oxford Univerity's RSV-CE Bibles are actually a hybrid of the RSV-CE and RSV 1971 texts. According to various Catholic forums, the RSV experts and fans generally think the RSV-CE/RSV 1971 hybrid text is the best of the three. Here are some comparisons I copied from a forum:

Douay Rheims:
Isaiah 7:14: "virgin"
Psalm 8:5: "Thou hast made him a little less than the angels"
Matthew 16:18: "gates of Hell"
Luke 1:34: "How shall this be"
Luke 23:42: "And he said to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when thou shalt come into thy kingdom.”
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, as to give his only begotten Son; that whosoever believeth in him, may not perish, but may have life everlasting."
John 19:5: "Behold the man"
Matthew 19:5, 19:6, 1 Corinthians 6:16 "one flesh"
Throughout OT: "mercy", "ass"


Original 1965 RSV-CE:
Isaiah 7:14: uses Masoretic Text "young woman"
Psalm 8:5: uses Masoretic Text "Yet thou hast made him little less than God"
Matthew 16:18: "powers of death", footnote "gates of Hades"
Luke 1:34: "How can this be"
Luke 23:42: "And he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come in your kingly power."
John 3:16 - "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."
John 19:5: "Here is the man"
Matthew 19:5, 19:6, 1 Corinthians 6:16 "one", footnote "one flesh"
Throughout OT: "steadfast love", "ass"
Archaic language spoken to God.
Full pronunciation marks on names


Ignatius Bible RSV Second Catholic Edition:
Isaiah 7:14: uses Septuagint "virgin"
Psalm 8:5: uses Septuagint "Yet you have made him little less than the angels"
Matthew 16:18: "gates of Hades", footnote "powers of death"
Luke 1:34: "How can this be"
John 3:16 - "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."
John 19:5: "Here is the man"
Matthew 19:5, 19:6, 1 Corinthians 6:16 "one", footnote "one flesh"
Throughout OT: "mercy", "donkey"
Only Archaic language in a few specific cases.
"semi" pronunciation marks on names


Oxford Press RSV-CE/RSV 1971 hybrid:
Isaiah 7:14: uses Masoretic Text "young woman"
Psalm 8:5: uses Masoretic Text "Yet thou hast made him little less than God"
Matthew 16:18: "powers of death", footnote "gates of Hades"
Luke 1:34: "How shall this be"
Luke 23:42: "And he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.”
John 3:16 - "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."
John 19:5: "Behold, the man"
Matthew 19:5, 19:6, 1 Corinthians 6:16 "one flesh", no footnote
Throughout OT: "steadfast love", "ass"
Archaic language spoken to God.
"semi" pronunciation marks on names

On all of these editions, Luke 1:28 is rendered "Hail, full of grace", and throughout the Holy Spirit is refered to with "whom" or "who" instead of "which". Douay-Rheims has "Amen I say to you" and "Alleluia" while all three RSV versions have "truly I say to you" and "praise the Lord".

Timothy said...

Anon,

Yes thanks for that list. I remember seeing it on the forum as well. It would be nice if Ignatius would be a little more forthcoming about the changes, which are more extensive than simply updating the archaic language.

Anonymous said...

I quickly went through my NAB, to add it to the comparison:

Isaiah 7:14: "virgin"
Psalm 8:5: "Yet you have made them little less than a god"
Matthew 16:18: "gates of the netherworld"
Luke 1:34: "how can this be"
Luke 23:42; "Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom"
John 3:16: "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him might not perish but might have eternal life"
John 19:5; "Behold the man"
Matthew 19:5, 19:6, 1 Cor 6:16: "one flesh"
Luke 1:28; "Hail favored one" (but the altered NT approved for Liturgy has "Hail full of grace")
NT has "Amen I say to you"

We really need to email the bishops: nab "at" usccb "dot" org to respectfully ask them to use the altered NT approved for Liturgy in the NABRE instead of the standard 1986 NT.

Timothy said...

Anon,

While I agree that that would be the right thing to do, I just don't see the USCCB doing it. Hopefully, we will be hearing some news soon about a possibly publication date for the NABRE.

Anonymous said...

"Ask and you shall receive". All of us who love the Bible need to make the effort to ask this of the Bishops. And some praying about it is sure to help, also.

Shazamaholic said...

I agree. We need to let the USCCB know we what the NABRE to include the Liturgical version of the NT. Whether they choose to include it or not, we still need to make our voices heard. I would love it if they would include the Liturgical NT, and make two more revisions: restore "gates of hell", and "on earth, peace to people of good will." It's up to Catholic blogs like this one and "Absolutely No Spin" to encourage Catholics to contact thier bishops about this. I sent an email to nab (at) usccb (dot) org.

Anonymous said...

I believe the RSV-2CE makes a few additional changes that no one has mentioned. "Yea" is replaced with "Yes," "Lo" is replaced with "Behold," and "babe" is replaced with "baby."

Quite frankly, I think these changes are unnecessary and reflect poor linquistic taste on the part of Ignatius Press.

Anonymous said...

I also think the RSV-2CE is a tad bit deceptive when it claims to be translated in conformity with Liturgiam Authenticam. As most people who've read LA know, one of the recommendations from LA was that Hebrew and Aramaic words like "Amen," "Raca," "Maranatha," and "Alleluia" not be translated like they are in the RSV.

Given all the ridiculous changes made by Ignatius Press (e.g., "ass" to "donkey," "babe" to "baby," etc.), surely they could have make these other changes too. Hopefully, the next printing will include these changes.

While they're at it, let's get rid of "kingly power" and "Here is the man" too!

Tena Tell said...

I'm confused! I already own a RSV-2CE printed in China. I purchased the one printed in the US yesterday. When I compared the two, the Chinese version stated Liturgiam Authenticam 2002, while the US one says Liturgiam Authenticam 2001. Also, there are different and more maps in the US version.

Which is the lastest print/current edition.

Thanks.

Timothy said...

Tena,

I was unaware that the maps were different. I do know that the cover, while still bonded leather, is more flexible and the paper is less glossy.

Anonymous said...

I'm new to this and I'm confused. Is the RSV:2CE the same thing as the NRSV?

Timothy said...

Anon,

The two are different. The RSV-2CE is a minor revision of the RSV done by Ignatius Press in 2006. The NRSV was a complete revision completed in 1989, and was an ecumenical venture through the NCCUSA.